Mark Fasken: Despite what many believe, Investor Relations is about more than just numbers–to take an Investor Relations program from good to great you must be able to stand out and tell a distinguishing story to investors, analysts, customers and stakeholders. An often overlooked component of the role, storytelling and crafting compelling narratives are essential for the modern investor relations professional.
Today’s guest is Tiffany Willis, the Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Starbucks. I had the pleasure of working with Tiffany on a panel at NIRI this year and knew we needed to share her insights with the Winning IR listeners. Tiffany is an accomplished IRO leading the financial communications strategy for over one hundred billion dollars in stock market capitalization at Starbucks. Before her role at Starbucks, she held senior roles at companies like Ingredion, Fiserv and Time Warner. She is a vibrant storyteller, incredible leader and a committed community member. I am excited to share her insights with you on today’s episode.
Introduction and Background
Mark Fasken: So Tiffany, I was fortunate to work with you and hear you speak on the NIRI panel back in June. I've also listened to some of your speaking engagements, so I’m becoming a Tiffany fan, including some of your commencement speeches, which are awesome. And so the first question that I wanted to ask, and I'm not trying to make you blush here, but like, were you always a natural storyteller? Or is it a skill that you've developed over time?
Tiffany Willis: Well, first, thank you, Mark, for the kind words and thank you for at least allowing me to be here to share some insights with some of my fellow IR professionals and colleagues. It's always an honour to work with you and Irwin, so I appreciate the opportunity.
Developing Storytelling Skills
Tiffany Willis: To your question, I was not always a storyteller, or a natural storyteller. It definitely was a skill. And I see storytelling very much like muscles. It's something that you have to build, you have to develop, and you have to continue to work on it to maintain that muscle. And so it's been a skill that I've developed over the years, but I still work on it.
I still look at other people that are speakers, professionals, motivational speakers, and say, wow! Listen to how they speak. Listen to how effective and impactful their speech was. And so I still have room to grow. I'm still building that muscle, but no, I was not a natural storyteller, it was something I developed.
Mark Fasken: Any books or podcasts or anything off the top of your mind that you've found helpful?
Tiffany Willis: Ah, not necessarily books or podcasts. It would be more of just watching people give speeches. And so I love, watching especially like celebrities give commencement speeches. I also love to hear our founder, Howard Schultz speak. There is a sense of passion. There's a sense of warmth, and you're drawn in. And so, I kind of listened to what their themes are. What are some of the intangibles, the way they talk, the pace, the tone, their stance, and so I'm more of a visual person, so not books, not podcasts, but really watching the speaker as they deliver speeches.
Mark Fasken: Awesome. I'm more of a visual person, too, as you can tell from the podcast and like to like to talk things through.
Crafting a Compelling Narrative in IR
Mark Fasken: So that sort of leads into our second question, which, you know, I think a lot of people don't necessarily think about investor relations as a, as a storytelling type role, right? A lot of people think about finance, and accounting, and numbers.
But, we often talk about how a big part of the job as an IRO is crafting a compelling narrative, and how that's a big challenge for a lot of IROs, and I think companies in general. And so for those companies that are struggling with that and trying to come up with a compelling narrative, do you have any suggestions around, you know, where a company should start, where an IRO should start if they're trying to make those improvements.
Tiffany Willis: Yeah, I think with storytelling, first and foremost, I think when you think of IR and an IRO, people do think that it's a finance profession. And indeed, it sits within the CFO wheelhouse, and the finance function, but the communications piece, the storytelling piece is just as critical as the finance piece.
And so, when I'm crafting a narrative and I am having a hard time, or finding it challenging, the first thing I think about is, what do I want my listeners to walk away with? What are the key takeaways? And that sometimes allows you to focus on the key elements of your messages. And then from those key takeaways, I start with an outline, right?
Okay, if these are the key takeaways, how do we want to frame the story? How do we want to frame the storyline to then allow the person to hear the build, and have those key takeaways? So that's one element. Another element, I think, whenever you're crafting a narrative, it's all about what's the objective.
Are you trying to inform the person? Are you trying to persuade the person? Is it to motivate them? And so you need to know what your objective is as well. And so knowing your key takeaways, knowing what your objective is, I think is very important and usually helps get you over that hurdle of it being a challenge to start.
The other piece I would say, and it kind of ties into the lead in of this question when you talked about an IRO, and it being in finance, but there's always a storytelling piece. When you're thinking about those key takeaways, when you're thinking about what you want the listener to hear and what you're trying to do in terms of inform or persuade, I had once been given some great advice that has stuck with me regarding a swimming pool.
And my CEO at the time, when I started IR had said, describe a swimming pool to me. And it was through that exercise that really allowed me to understand the importance of storytelling because most people may say: oh, wow, here's a swimming pool. I want to sell you the swimming pool. It's 12 feet deep, 12 feet wide, 100 feet long.
Is someone going to buy that swimming pool? Or, is it better to sell the swimming pool by telling them that this pool is 12 feet deep, and it will allow someone to take a dive into this pool, and their toes will just brisk on the bottom of the pool. But if they want to act like, or imagine that they're Michael Phelps and do Olympic laps, this pool is long enough at a hundred feet to allow them to imagine they're Michael Phelps. But then also if the person just wants to sit on the side, and watch the sun glisten on the top of the water or see the reflection of the sun, or see the subtle waves, it's wide enough that they can see the water without getting wet from those playing in the pool.
And so I learned that exercise whenever I'm thinking about something, it's not just the quantitative aspects that you're trying to share. It's not the 12 ft deep, 12 ft wide, 100 ft long. But you have to give the qualitative. You have to make it vivid. You have to help people understand, and make it resonate.
So they're like, oh, yeah, I kind of like that pool. That sounds like an interesting pool. And that's the same as what we do as IROs for our company. We are trying to convince the street that we are a worthy purchase of being in their portfolio. And it's not just a matter of the numbers, but you have to give that vivid clarity into why these numbers make sense, why these numbers are so attractive.
And I don't know, I'd rather buy a pool that I could imagine I’m Michael Phelps swimming those Olympic laps, than buying a pool that's just a hundred feet long.
Mark Fasken: That's awesome. I thought I was a pretty good storyteller, and you asked that question and I was thinking to myself, I'm going like, well, it's a hole in the ground. And it has water in it and you can jump in there. So maybe I need to work on that. Jeez. That's great. I mean, so I took down a couple of notes as we were going through that, and I think it's always helpful for listeners.
So when you think about building out a sort of a process for you crafting a narrative, you think about what's the key message? What is the objective of that message? And what do we want people to do once they hear that message? And then the third piece is as you deliver that, you're trying to think about how do you make it (you used the term vivid)? How do you make sure that it resonates with investors? I kind of get like a sense of, how do you make it exciting? Right. How do you make it so that it's not just numbers, and forecasts and it can just be a little bit boring.
Tiffany Willis: Exactly. Exactly. Right. And you're telling a story, but the audience, the listeners, they're hearing the story from multiple IROs. And so you have to use that opportunity to distinguish your company and your storyline, and whether it's a growth company, whether it's a value company, why should they buy? Why should they hold? And so your job is really to be a cheerleader for the company. You're a spokesperson for the company. You're the liaison for the company. And so, for me, I take that role very seriously. And so, that's why I put so much time and attention into making sure that the narrative is crafted in a way that brings some excitement.
Not losing the seriousness on making sure that the numbers are told and the direction that we're going, but to also just make sure that it's vivid enough so people are excited, as much as the executives and those in our company as we're working towards our, you know, our strategy.
Mark Fasken: That's awesome. That's great. Okay, so that brings us to our next question, and this is, I think, an interesting one.
Aligning with Executives
Mark Fasken: So, you know, you've had the privilege of, of being the IRO at Starbucks for a few different executives and CEOs.
I mean, you've obviously also worked in other companies other than Starbucks. So, I mean, you've had a lot of different experiences working with executives. They've got different personalities, different communication styles, different visions for what, you know, how they want to talk to the street, how they want to talk to investors.
How do you align the narrative with the executive team or, CEO that you're working with? Are there steps that you take to make sure that there is alignment and, you know, everybody's not just going off in a bunch of different directions?
Tiffany Willis: Yeah, I think the thing that has worked for me, I have had the opportunity to sit as an IRO for different companies.
So by default, different executives, and even here at Starbucks, different executives. But when I think just broader, even outside of just Starbucks, but my collective experience as an IRO, the one piece that has been helpful for me, and it kind of ties back to what I mentioned earlier, is just understanding what's the key takeaways.
What is it that that executive wants the street to know when we end that call, when we finish that conversation when we complete that non-deal roadshow? And for me, that's the staple. That's what I work around. And so, yes, they all have different personalities. They all have different ways that they want to describe something. And so, you tend to pick up on that. You tend to learn it. I tend to study my executives by looking at past earnings calls where they spoke, and past speeches that they've had so that I can get a feel of their lingo and their style. But overall, the narrative is always around what are the key takeaways?
Consistency in Messaging
Mark Fasken: And you've also, on a previous conversation that we had, talked a little bit about the consistency of the narrative, right? You know, over time, how do you keep the narrative consistent? And that you build on it over time, you don't want to just be telling the same story over and over, but that there's a core message.
And you've talked a little bit about how you manage that process with the executive team, right, that just maybe you're prepping for an earnings call. And, I think you've used the term like spirit fingers, everybody gets all excited, and they start talking about some new product, and you've got to sort of reel it back a little bit.
Like, can you speak to that a little bit? Because I'm sure that that's something a lot of IROs struggle with, right? They're like, Hey, we agreed on this strategy or narrative six months ago, we can't just suddenly change our mind at the last minute.
Tiffany Willis: Yeah. You know, when I'm thinking about just my broader IRO experience, the one thing that has helped me, is I think of like every earnings call as a bridge.
And so it's a matter of what did we communicate last time? And then let's walk people from that over the bridge to now this quarter. And so that way, there's the consistency. Last quarter we gave you an update on A, B, and C. Let me tell you how we're doing on A, B, and C, and now what we're doing further to extend those.
And let me tell you now how we added D, E, and F. But it's very important to have consistency. You don't want to show up every earnings call where your listeners are trying to put together a new puzzle. That can be frustrating for them. And if I put myself in their shoes, I could understand why. And so I always say that my job is not only to be a liaison from the company to, to Wall Street, but also to be a liaison from Wall Street back to the company.
And so that consistency piece is something that I really try and deliver on when I think about putting myself in their shoes on Wall Street. In terms of, you know, spirit fingers. It kind of goes to the vividness of a story, right? There needs to be an element of excitement. There needs to be an element of what's coming next, but you just have to make sure that that's balanced with what is coming next in the near future, that we have enough confidence in, we have enough progress in, that we're going to deliver in if we share it.
And so that's really just a balancing act to help some individuals understand that it's great to share what's coming, but let's share what's coming that's in the near future within our reach. And so that's kind of the perspective I've had across all of my IRO roles. That's been very helpful in keeping me centered and keeping me not only an effective liaison for the company but an effective liaison for the street.
Mark Fasken: That's great. And just like going back to that idea of the bridge, how do you do that? Is that just as simple as managing a document where you've got your key messages for each quarterly earnings call? And you're just, every time you're looking back at that with the team to say, Hey, we talked about this on our last call, we've got me to make sure that we address it. Here are the new things, but we need to, it's really, you're creating that bridge, but you're tracking all of that, I'm sure.
Tiffany Willis: Yep, exactly, exactly. And it is, it's truly a document that I keep, and it's a matter of, okay, here's the 12, 13 things that we discussed, and as we start to develop the script for the next quarter, I'm looking, and I'm reconciling.
It's the Audit background in me. I'm reconciling those topics to see, did we address those? And if we didn't, why not? Does it make sense? Why not? And if we didn't, then it's a matter of, okay, someone may ask that question. So let's make sure we're prepared for it in Q& A. And so it's not where by default, a hundred percent of everything we talk about every quarter has to be in the next quarter, if it doesn't make sense, but let's make sure that we have it addressed for that quarter through our discussions, whether it's in the script or it's in the Q& A.
Mark Fasken: Awesome. Okay. That's great.
Balancing Proactive and Reactive Communication
Mark Fasken: And so a lot of what we've talked about here, and I always feel in our conversations, like, you know, you're very proactive, you're kind of thinking ahead and thinking about, you know, what are investors going to say? What are they going to ask? You're putting yourself in their shoes. I think you've got a lot of empathy, which, you know, I think is very helpful as a, as a storyteller. But as you know, there's also an element to IR, a big element that is reactive, right? I mean you put out an earnings release, and the market doesn't like it. Or there's a change within the company and there's positive and negative interpretations. So how do you, and how would you recommend that other IROs balance that proactive storytelling withrReactive communication as you know, different news and feedback is coming in.
Tiffany Willis: Yeah. You know, I think about a conversation I had with a board member, and they said the best defense is offense, and it resonated with me because people always think about that in sports, but it was the first time I heard about it as an IRO.
And I think that really comes to being proactive. And so there's always going to be news. There's always going to be something that pops every single day about a company. For us and for me, it's not about being reactive. It's about coming out with our strategy, coming out with our progress, and then staying centered on that as an IRO.
Right? And so, as I get questions, I always tie it back to what have we already publicly shared? What did we already share on the progress on this topic? And then with being proactive, making sure that even between the earnings calls, that we take advantage of the time to talk to the street, that we have those discussions, we have those meetings, we can reinforce the message that came through the earnings call, we can make sure they have enough color, we can make sure they have enough insight, and clarify any misperceptions that they may have.
And so, using that time then allows us when other things pop on a daily basis coming from the news, any speculation, that they have enough of the story and enough of that relationship built that they trust and they can lean on that story that they've heard directly from myself or the company, versus what's happening in the news.
Mark Fasken: That's great. And I think, you've mentioned this previously, part of that proactive strategy you just mentioned is, of course, talking to investors, and that's, as we all know a big big part of IR. But that feedback piece of it, right? How do you take that feedback in? How do you distill it? How do you then deliver that back to the management team?
Any tips from that perspective? Because I talked to, I'll say for myself, like I talked to a lot of IROs, and they say, Oh, my gosh, I was just on at a conference, and I had 50 meetings, and I can't remember what happened, right? Like I blacked out. Maybe not that dramatic, but you know, it's a lot of information.
And so, how do you think about distilling that and communicating back to the management team?
Tiffany Willis: Yeah. So, one, I think, from an analyst perspective, they have notes, right? And so one of the things that is helpful is making sure that we summarize those notes and saying this is what the analyst, the sales side, is thinking about: here's the trends that we're seeing. Here's the themes we're seeing in their notes. And then on the buy side with investors, it's the same concept. Although there's not the written notes, it's our job to then summarize. Here's what we're hearing from investors. And so one of the things that we do is we kind of summarize what we'll call like a pulse.
What is the pulse of the street? And in that we communicate, here's what we're hearing. Here's the topics that keep coming up. Here's the hot topics and here's what they're saying around these topics. Here's where they would like more clarity, or here's what they didn't quite understand. And so, that allows not only our management team to understand what's happening and being talked about in The Street, but then that's an opportunity for us to clarify things the next time I have them on a call with an investor.
The next time I have them on the road for a non-deal roadshow, our next earnings call. And so, again, I take that role very seriously, and not just representing the company to the street, but also representing the street back to the company.
Owning Your Narrative
Mark Fasken: Okay, so we're gonna switch gears a little bit here and talk about Tiffany and storytelling and owning your own narrative.
I think, as we all know, a big part of building your career, and being successful in your career is building this narrative around yourself and the value that you can add. So how do you think about owning your narrative as a leader, as an IRO, as a community member?
Or whether that's in your own community at home or being part of like NIRI and, and other things. And so, just like, how do you think about that? How do you plan it out? I think that'd be helpful to understand.
Tiffany Willis: Yeah. Thank you for using the term own your narrative. You definitely did some research, as it's kind of the pinnacle of a lot of my speeches.
And so for me, I am very consistent in who I am and I try and be authentic and to the extent possible, transparent. And so that owning my narrative really captures all of that. And so that's what I bring into my role as an IRO. That's what I bring as myself as a servant leader when I think about my team and the company and then also a community member.
And so for me, it's about being true to myself, but also true to the people that are listening. And so whether that's as an IRO and making sure that I am that bridge for them, and making sure that I am that consistent storyteller for them. That I am bringing them along. That's very important to me.
And I have that same mentality when I'm thinking about myself as a leader. Am I being transparent to my team? Am I bringing them along? Am I motivating them? Those attributes, I think they follow you regardless of what your role is and what hat you're wearing at the time.
Mark Fasken: And that actually maybe leads into a little bit of a bonus question that was not on the list of questions that I gave you.
But you can take a second to think about it if you need.
Advice for Aspiring IROs
Mark Fasken: I mean, you've had a really impressive career. I think being, you know, being at Starbucks, going through all the changes that have happened, I think that requires a certain type of person. It's a very difficult, I'm sure stressful role for many IROs.
But it seems like you've been very successful in it. Any guidance that you would give, I hope that there are people who listen to the Winning IR Podcast and are looking for tips from people who are more successful or just further along in their careers than they are at this point.
And so just wondering if you have any words of wisdom for people who are maybe earlier in their career.
Tiffany Willis: Yeah for me, I try and focus on the things that I can control. And so, as you mentioned, right, being in a company with a lot of change or even being in the IRO seat which could be very stressful. If I can't control things, I don't focus on those.
I can control my attitude. I can control my work ethic, for example. And so when I see a lot of change around me, I'm trying to bring a calm to that chaos. I'm trying to bring a calm to the change, and I can control that by how I interact with people, my warmth that I bring, the energy that I bring.
And so I just really try and focus on if there's a glass that's half full, how do I make the glass now full? And then work ethic. When there's a lot of change happening around you, when things can be stressful, I kind of look at it and say, well, there's some people that don't sit in this seat, and there's some people whose seat is not at the table. And then there's people who's sitting at the table, and they're not saying anything in their seat. I'm grateful to have a seat. I'm grateful to have a seat at the table. I'm grateful that my executives want my opinion. They ask. They solicit. And so, for me, I focus on that piece.
And so that really drives my attitude. It drives my work ethic. I don't focus on any of the change, per se, or any of the chaos or any of the stress. I'm grateful for the opportunity, and I just see it as an opportunity for me to lean in and bring a positive piece of energy that can just make someone's stressful day a little lighter.
Mark Fasken: Well, that's a bit of a mic-drop moment. Everybody could use a little bit more Tiffany. A little bit more of that attitude. Tiffany, this is awesome.
Tiffany Willis: I think I blew that one off record. So, um, that's definitely an authentic, transparent response.
Mark Fasken: Those are sometimes, those are sometimes the best ones.
So, this has been great. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you being on the podcast. You know, sitting on the, on the panel with us at NIRI. It's been a great learning experience, for me and, and for our team. And so again, thank you very much.
Tiffany Willis: Thank you. Thank you so much, Mark. And thank you to the company and Irwin. I really appreciate engaging with you all.
